I wanted her to leave the race with dignity...

by juliewolf, Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:32:23 PM EST

I'm an Obama supporter (migrated from Edwards), but I can't help but have some real respect for Clinton in this race.  She's a fierce and powerful opponent and though she's by no means someone I wanted to be President, I understand why a lot of people were supporting her campaign and I have real respect for the intensity with which she ran her campaign, even if I didn't agree with the ethics of all her choices.

Indeed, Democrats can learn a lot from her willingness to fight, fight, fight and fight, without fear of the consequences.

I'd very much hoped, though, that Clinton would exit this race with some shred of dignity about her, some way to show that her supporters that their time and effort wasn't wasted, and something that gave them all a sense of closure.

That opportunity is now gone.

So here's where things stand: I don't much care what the intent of her comments were.  They were completely and totally inappropriate for whatever reason she made them.   I'm so far beyond anger on this that it's not the fire of range but instead a dull, throbbing, ache.

I'm just amazed, saddened, and disappointed.

I wanted the first woman to run as a serious candidate for president to either win or lose in a way that showed a real chance for her.  She had opportunity after opportunity to exit gracefully, to provide a sense of dignity and to work with her supporters to transition them to supporting Obama, but she was never interested in that.

But that's irrelevant now.  

What's relevant now is that she can't stay in this race, not any longer.  She needs to find a way to exit from this race as quickly as possible, and she needs to do so while taking responsibility for having invoked the assassination of a young, charismatic Democrat while running a campaign against a young, charismatic Democrat.

She needs to find a way to get out of this race with whatever dignity she has left, and I hope this finally gives her the message that it's time.  It's too late to concern ourselves with the psychological needs of her supporters and it's too late to be worried about what effect this has on the race as a whole.

She can't stay in this race any longer.

Period.

I think she knows this.  

I think she's known this for some time now.

Now it's just a matter of whether or this most recent incident is enough for her to go beyond knowing it to actually admit it.

I wanted her to leave this race with dignity.

Now I just want her to leave.




Tags: Clinton, president, 20008 (all tags)

Display:
Permalink :: 213 Comments :: Post a Comment


Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (1.76 / 30)

Thank You! I feel the same. I'm almost sick with anger at her right now. I don't care if I'm troll rated and kicked off this site, but she is a fucking MONSTER!!! Anyone who condones these remarks has a mind so perverted as to not be taken seriously in any way.


Samantha Powers was dead on- Hillary is a MONSTER. (5/23/08)
by Maize and Blue State on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:36:21 PM EST

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (1.33 / 15)

faux outrage, anyone?


by colebiancardi on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:53:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (2.00 / 2)

Stay classy pal.


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:56:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (1.80 / 5)

I am ;)  thanks.


by colebiancardi on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:01:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Straight from RFK, Jr (2.00 / 7)

This is classy:

"It is clear from the context that Hillary was invoking a familiar political circumstance in order to support her decision to stay in the race through June. I have heard her make this reference before, also citing her husband's 1992 race, both of which were hard fought through June. I understand how highly charged the atmosphere is, but I think it is a mistake for people to take offense."-- Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:25:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Too bad that doesn't make sense. (2.00 / 1)


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:38:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Too bad that doesn't make sense. (2.00 / 1)

If not for what Clinton referenced, 1968 would be an example of a hard fought Democratic primary that ended in the election of a Democratic president. Along with 1992, this alternate universe 1968 is the only example that Clinton has of a modern Democratic primary that was hard fought that didn't end in the election of a Republican.


by letterc on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:33:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Too bad that doesn't make sense. (none / 0)

Nixon won in 68'


It's time to restore balance and fairness to our economy,... It's time to stop giving tax cuts to corporations that ship jobs overseas... - Barack Obama
by Lefty Coaster on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:48:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Too bad that doesn't make sense. (none / 0)

Yes, obviously, but not against Bobby Kennedy.

The clarity of my post is hampered by my refusal to use a certain word. If Kennedy had lived to be the nominee, the mythology holds that he would have won in the general election. It is a pretty weak argument, but other than misinterpreting 1992 it is the only possible example of a contested nomination leading to a Dem win since the nomination system became at all similar to the current nomination system. Of course, argument from history is not very reliable in this situation, anyway.


by letterc on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:28:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Classy? (none / 0)

Indeed.  He supports her candidacy, remember?


"Not only do I want an elite president, I want someone who's embarrassingly superior to me." -- Jon Stewart, 4/15/08
by JulieinVT on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:33:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Classy? (none / 0)

He's also a Kennedy.  Which do you think is more important to him?


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:32:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Classy? (none / 0)

I believe he made that pretty clear.


"Not only do I want an elite president, I want someone who's embarrassingly superior to me." -- Jon Stewart, 4/15/08
by JulieinVT on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:05:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You might want to tell that (none / 0)

to Maize.


by Montague on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:10:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (1.55 / 9)

Yes, there is simply a time to question the morals and judgment of a diarist who so obviously is fabricating her real attitudes towards Clinton.

As I've said elsewhere, events occur out of the blue that alter political landscapes.  Is anyone here old enough to remember the Thomas Eagleton debacle?  Look it up if you don't know about it.  Teddy drove into a pond one night and altered his political career.  Jeremiah Wright appeared out of nowhere.  Larry Johnson claims there is a second incriminating tape that will harm Obama.  Will that be the shattering event Clinton obviously is waiting for?  Bill Clinton's reputation was stained by someone who happened to get confidential information from Monica Lewinsky about a certain indiscretion and happened to have a motive to release it.  Watergate would not have turned into a fiasco for Nixon if Alexander Butterfield has not honestly answered an innocent question.

WASHINGTON -- It was a Friday afternoon in July, and the witness was just a small fry: Alexander Butterfield, who kept President Nixon's schedule and handled his paper flow. Three staff members of the Senate Watergate Committee were questioning him, preparing for his public testimony the following Monday.

Trolling, one asked whether there might be something down at the White House, some sort of recording system?

Butterfield took a breath.

"I was hoping you fellows wouldn't ask me that," he said.

And with that, history turned a corner. What Butterfield revealed that afternoon in 1973 -- and on television to the senators and the world three days later -- was electrifying news: For 2 ½ years, Nixon had been secretly taping his conversations.

That's all she was saying.  As I've said before, this is all an attempt to distract the public because of Obama's bad head-to-head swing state poll numbers this week.

It is the Obama fanatics who are a disgrace for implying, falsely, that there is some evil behind this statement, just as they have besmirched this woman's character for some time.

I accuse the diarist of lying about her true feelings.  The interpretation of Clinton's remarks is completely out of bounds.


by katmandu1 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:26:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disingenuious diarist (none / 0)

Sage words of wisdom, katmandu1. Spot on.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:33:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (2.00 / 3)


"Larry Johnson claims there is a second incriminating tape that will harm Obama."

Great way to get a hit in there and a smear.

Larry Johnson is a tool. If he had anything now would be the moment to use it. If he doesnt' have anything why would the GOP tell a "progressive" (use that therm lightly) with a shady reputation  that they have an incriminating tape?

Talk about spreading false rumors.

This comment reeks of hipocrisy.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:42:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (none / 0)

Larry Johnson's a tool because at some point he's gone fucking insane, which is truly unfortunate.


by Geiiga on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:32:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (none / 0)

What Geiiga said. I happen to think that Paul Krugman is one of the few people at the NYT who really Gets It.™ And that was before he called bullshit on the gas tax holiday.


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:43:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (2.00 / 4)

"As I've said elsewhere, events occur out of the blue that alter political landscapes."

Such an event happened today.

That is why she must withdraw.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:07:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (none / 0)

bad head to head numbers? check out the new ohio numbers.  that you can reference this as an attempt by any campaign to divert attention is utterly ridiculous and sounds extremely paranoid. get in therapy.


daninpa
by daninpa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:02:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama Bad Poll Numbers? (2.00 / 1)

I was with you until you pulled that out.  His numbers this week have been very good (I have been watching quite closely).  Hillary's have been better, but the news for Barack was still good.

To be more specific, notice he is up on the MyDD chart 290 - 248 vs. about the reverse last week.  And while I understand the weakness of using only the last poll, feel free to reference another site called fivethirtyeight.com which uses weighted averages of recent polls.  On that site, Obama has moved up quite nicely over the last week.


by sasatlanta on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:12:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (2.00 / 3)

Actually, this is the deeply offensive interpretation. If Clinton was saying "You never know what will happen," and used the assassination of Bobby Kennedy as her example, then she would indeed be done. It is sad and sick that you think that would be an okay thing for her to say.

The excusable thing for her to have said is that it is alright for her to stay in because there are multiple examples of contested nominations where the Dems go on to win (1968 would be an example if only Bobby Kennedy had not been shot), and where the winner wasn't clear until near the end.


by letterc on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:39:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (2.00 / 1)

Yes, there is simply a time to question the morals and judgment of a diarist who so obviously is fabricating her real attitudes towards Clinton.
If you want to accuse me of something, it would greatly benefit you to be specific and back it up with fact.

If you, on the other hand, simply want to engage in ad hominem, well, I guess that's you're right.


I'm only a click away
by juliewolf on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:15:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (none / 0)

People claiming there was evil intent behind her words are the significant minority.

However, I do find it ghastly that she was only able to muster a half apology to anyone who "might have been offended" by her statement.  Just bite the bullet and take full responsibility.  The thing that bugs me is that she did something that was wrong, she knows she was wrong, and yet I still feel like she is trying to avoid taking full responsibility for it.

Maybe I'm not perceiving this correctly, but it's how I feel and why I am currently not too thrilled with her.


by masterxi43 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:27:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (2.00 / 1)

No, I think you have it about right.  I'm likely as outraged by her statement as anyone, and even I don't ascribe "evil" intent.  I don't think she is wishing harm against her opponent; but it was spectacularly inappropriate to cite the RFK assassination in that manner.  And then she apologizes to the Kennedy family; but not to Obama or the rest of us who remember that painful day and hope with all our hearts it never happens again.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:42:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't care whether or not there's evil intent (2.00 / 2)

Personally I don't think there is.  It's not like if she were calculated enough to plan to have Obama killed that she'd be stupid enough to make veiled reference to it in an interview.

And really, I don't care why she did it.  Whatever her motives, she has yet to apologize to Obama for the comment and I don't see any signs that she's going to do so.


I'm only a click away
by juliewolf on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:56:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (1.50 / 2)

No, that's not "all she was saying".  First she suggested that OBAMA's campaign and "some on the media" have been mysteriously and inexplicably trying to push her out "since Iowa".  So there was her first lie.  THEN, she evokes RFK's assassination as a rationale for staying in, even though campaigns began much later in those days. Finally, in her NON-apology, she lied by suggesting she had Teddy on her mind.  BULLSHIT!  She's used those lies repeatedly in the past.

YET AGAIN, as Keith Olbermann so succinctly reminded us last night, Hillary's reverting to the politics of the very worst kind.  Democrats ought be appalled.  

By the way - I'm no "Obama Fanatic".  I was all for Bill Richardson.  But I NEVER could have supported the candidate who not only wouldn't apologize for her Iraq vote, but has continued on her hawkish road since then.  


"Not only do I want an elite president, I want someone who's embarrassingly superior to me." -- Jon Stewart, 4/15/08
by JulieinVT on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:40:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted Obama to show some maturity (2.00 / 1)

And all Obama's manufactured hysteria over nothing is much like Bush - distracting from HIS gaffes and lies and ever changing positions.

What "manufactured hysteria" did Obama present?

Has he even commented on this?


I'm only a click away
by juliewolf on Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:53:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted Obama to show some maturity (2.00 / 1)

Yes - Obama commented with a knee-jerk response - and as usual "interpreted" Hillary's remarks in the worst possible way to benefit himself.

And that comment would be...?


I'm only a click away
by juliewolf on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:38:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted Obama to show some maturity (none / 0)

Obama didn't say anything. His campaign issued a statement saying the comment was "inappropriate," not exactly a scathing word.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:30:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted Obama to show some maturity (2.00 / 1)

OBAMA using ROVIAN tactics???? ARe you for frikkin' real?  

Excuse me whilst I pick my jaw up off of the table.  

Christ!


"Not only do I want an elite president, I want someone who's embarrassingly superior to me." -- Jon Stewart, 4/15/08
by JulieinVT on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:56:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Doesn't this feel like the Twilight Zone? (1.00 / 1)

I can't get over how much it feels like I'm arguing with rightwingers (as in the good old days when we were all on the same page and against the Bushwhacked....)


"Not only do I want an elite president, I want someone who's embarrassingly superior to me." -- Jon Stewart, 4/15/08
by JulieinVT on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:41:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted Obama to show some maturity (none / 0)

This is all lies and you know it.  Gives us the quotes.


by interestedbystander on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:42:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (none / 0)

"faux outrage, anyone?"

Is it so unimaginable that someone could feel real outrage at Hillary Clinton? Really, it's not necessary to malign someone's motives just because they don't like your preferred candidate.


by laird on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:38:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: where is your outrage?? (2.00 / 1)

I'm sure you've been OUTRAGED for the past year by the many comments here, DK, and other Obama blogs suggesting physical harm toward Hillary.

I don't think anyone should be suggesting physical harm towards Clinton.

There was a commenter at DK recently wanting to put a gun between Hillary's teeth - lots of recs for that one.

If this is true, it should be easy to prove it.


I'm only a click away
by juliewolf on Sat May 24, 2008 at 09:13:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: where is your outrage?? (none / 0)

Obviously, you don't get it.
Obamamites have been spewing physical threats to Hillary - but it's acceptable.

Obamedia does the same - but no outrage from you and other Obamamites.
And NO OUTRAGE from Obama!

As I said, if this were true, it would be easy to prove it.  Until you actually present evidence of "Obamamites spewing physical threats" at Clinton and other "Obamamites" approving of it, you've done nothing but make a claim.  If it's true, then provide some evidence.  Until then, I'm assuming it's false.


I'm only a click away
by juliewolf on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:02:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: where is your outrage?? (none / 0)

Please give the exact quote that shows how Obama has exploited kennedy's death.  If you can't, shut the fuck up with your lying claims.


by interestedbystander on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:44:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (2.00 / 11)

"I wanted her to leave this race with dignity.

Now I just want her to leave."

I pretty much gave up any hope of her leaving with dignity after her "hardworking, white Americans" comment.


by Deano963 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:38:32 PM EST

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (2.00 / 6)

I thought it could still happen.  Sometimes I think I'm just too willing to look for the best in people.


I'm only a click away
by juliewolf on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:44:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let me guess.... (none / 0)

You must not be one of those "typical white people" who are "bitter" and cling to god and guns." They pretty much gave up hope on Obama.

I pretty much gave up any hope of her leaving with dignity after her "hardworking, white Americans" comment.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:31:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me guess.... (2.00 / 2)

So you've got "bitter" and cling to god and guns."

Fine. And now you have today's comments.

Game over.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:08:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me guess.... (2.00 / 1)

Wow.

Just....wow.

I didn't think anyone could possibly be this stupid.

I am white you dumbass. I also grew up in a black neighborhood and my grade school was 95% black. I also don't think I put myself through college completely on my own by being lazy, so I think I qaulify as a hard worker.

That comment was racist b/c it insinuated that black people are not hard working, and b/c it was a deliberate attempt to make him "the black candidate". It showed a desperation so pathetic and vile that it was clear to me at that point a graceful exit with dignity was beyond question. Hillary has made it abundantly clear that the only way she is leaving the race is kicking and screaming.


by Deano963 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:52:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hard working Black Americans support Obama (none / 0)

I'm glad you think blithely referring to political assassination in this regard is outrage over nothing.

Tell that to Obama's wife and children. Tell that to his friends and his supporters who fear for his safety - a fear that is very justified for any Presidential candidate.

Clinton fucked this up on her own. It was a horrendously bad, insensitive, irresponsible statement and its a career-ender for virtually any politician in her position. She screwed this up fair and square on her own.


by upstate girl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:59:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (2.00 / 5)

But the worst part is, her campaign should have made it easier for the next women who chooses to run for POTUS. Now, they'll have to work twice as hard just to distance themselves from her.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:42:50 PM EST

Actually, (none / 0)

Since she'll be the next President of the US, she'll inspire even more women to run in the future.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:36:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, (2.00 / 1)

You're not wired to code, are you?

Seriously, how do you come up with this stuff.  How will she win the nomination?  Show me.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:57:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, (2.00 / 2)

We're talking intravenous kool aid here.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:44:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, (none / 0)

and when she doesn't, will you admit that you were delusional?


by 2501 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:56:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, (none / 0)

Nah.  It'll be another Baghdad Bob moment.  "I'm so excited, I'm going to Hillary Clinton's inauguration!  Look, I have a ticket to one of the parties!"  "Uhh..."


by auronrenouille on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:50:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That ship sailed (2.00 / 2)

she broke the bottle on its bow, herself.


by Bee on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:44:32 PM EST

Don't hold your breath (1.30 / 13)

Hillary is one tough cookie, and it'll take more than this for her to give up.  Your shocked outrage (coming from an Obama supporter) just doesn't register on the honesty scale.  


by izarradar on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:47:21 PM EST

Re: Don't hold your breath (2.00 / 5)

our shocked outrage (coming from an Obama supporter) just doesn't register on the honesty scale.  

It's sad that you're resorting to personal attacks here.


I'm only a click away
by juliewolf on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:51:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't mean to attack you personally (2.00 / 3)

I simply don't buy your concern that now Hillary will have to drop out.  That just didn't read too genuine in my book.


by izarradar on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:57:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Faux outrage (2.00 / 2)

Agreed.  This diarist has little, if any, "concern" for Hillary's dignity as evidenced by the text.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:38:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Faux outrage (none / 0)

Hillary's dignity is not on the top of America's list tonight. Should she resign tomorrow, that may create some sympathy.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:10:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't know why you say that. . . (none / 0)

She doesn't voice anything but genuine respect for Clinton. I suspect because of your own partisanship you find it hard to believe that someone would respect both candidates.


by drmark on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:45:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't hold your breath (none / 0)

That wasn't a personal attack.  It was worded quite diplomatically compared to a lot of stuff that goes on here.

This site has pretty much jumped the shark over this tempest in a teapot.

Women are supposed to bow out with dignity.  That's a woman's job.  Hmmm.   Lucky for Obama no one is telling HIM to act ladylike.


by Montague on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:14:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't hold your breath (2.00 / 2)

Edwards did bow out with dignity.  So did Richardson & Dodd.  

Clinton's not supposed to bow out with dignity because she's a woman.  She's supposed to bow out with dignity because she cares about her party and her political career.


I'm only a click away
by juliewolf on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:18:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't hold your breath (none / 0)

I wonder if you notice the difference between those three men and Clinton.

Oh, right - it's because they didn't have a hope in hell of winning.

Clinton and Obama are neck-and-neck in popular vote.

Has it occurred to you that maybe Hillary cares more about the country than her political career?


by Montague on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:35:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't hold your breath (none / 0)

Has it occurred to you that maybe Hillary cares more about the country than her political career?

No.  It hasn't occurred to me that Obama cares more about the country than his own political career either.  It really hasn't occurred to me that anyone arrogant enough to thinks that s/he's qualified to be President of the United States cares more about the country than his or her own political career.

Should it have?


I'm only a click away
by juliewolf on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:40:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't hold your breath (none / 0)

It really hasn't occurred to me that anyone arrogant enough to thinks that s/he's qualified to be President of the United States cares more about the country than his or her own political career.

Should it have?

I would certainly hope so. I think they both care more about their country than themselves. Ambition and determination are not the enemies of patriotism and concern for others.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:42:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't hold your breath (none / 0)

I would certainly hope so. I think they both care more about their country than themselves.

It's plausible, but I see no reason to affirmatively believe it.


I'm only a click away
by juliewolf on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:02:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't hold your breath (none / 0)

this entire diary is a personal attack on Hillary Clinton. please....


by swissffun on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:48:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'd have more faith in your assessment of this... (none / 0)

...if you were to provide any evidence whatsoever that Obama has had any involvement in this at all.


I'm only a click away
by juliewolf on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:23:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This site keeps a history (none / 0)

You ain't no Obama supporter


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:56:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The diarist (2.00 / 3)

is an Obama supporter.

I am supporting Senator Clinton.


by izarradar on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:14:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly (2.00 / 3)

This is faux outrage from the Obama side.  Clinton actually had made this argument a number of times.  But Obama has had a terrible week poll wise.  This was, in my opinion, a concerted effort by the Obama campaign to come up with a new issue to counter negative trends in the polls.


by katmandu1 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:29:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly (2.00 / 2)

Clinton lead in ghe popular vote has solidified, and will be even great through the rest of the primary season:

In most inclusive count, Clinton has the numbers

Lost in the excitement of Barack Obama's coronation this week was an inconvenient fact of Tuesday's results: Hillary Clinton netted approximately 150,000 votes and is now poised to finish the primary season as the popular-vote leader. In some quaint circles, presumably, these things still matter.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/2 0080523_In_most_inclusive_count__Clinton _has_the_numbers.html


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:43:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly (none / 0)

Of course, this includes the Michigan result, where Sen. Obama had removed his name from the ballot. So while it may be the most inclusive, it may not be the most fair.


by 2501 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:06:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly (2.00 / 1)

As KO said tonight in special comment, the media did a disservice to Clinton for letting her get away with it previously.

No one will let her do it again. If she can't campaign without repeatedly alluding to assassination, she has no business in the campaign.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:14:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly (none / 0)

What is insane is to not see this for what it is!


daninpa
by daninpa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:04:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's rich (2.00 / 1)

The media has been doing a whole lot of disservicin' from day one with its libel and slander about Clinton.  Funny that Olbermann should say this.  He does a disservice to the audience on a nearly nightly basis.


by Montague on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:18:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton has something up her sleeve (2.00 / 4)

It begs the question of whether she'd been clued into the contents of the next few sensational Obama based youtube clips.  

In all seriousness though, Obama's fans need to curtail the faux outrage for the time being.  If you wail at your loudest at Hillary's trivial gaffes, you'll seem to be crying wolf when the real drama begins with McCain.  

McCain has insulted Obama far more directly and frequently especially in the past two weeks.  Hillary's legendary so-called "claws" have amounted to little more than a political pillow fight.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:47:42 PM EST

Re: Clinton has something up her sleeve (2.00 / 2)

How can you call this a gaffe?  She's used the same basic phrasing several times.  


"I'm all for the delegate battle, and now that Obama's campaign is too, I'm all giddy. It's going to be the supers as kingmaker." J.Armstrong 01/19/08
by obscurant on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:53:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton has something up her sleeve (none / 0)

As an Obama supporter, I agree with you.


by rfahey22 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:57:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (2.00 / 5)

Unless Obama has somehow morphed into Bobby Kennedy , your diary makes very little sense.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:50:22 PM EST

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (2.00 / 1)

well one way to deal with this issue is to be intentionally dense.  I don't know that it serves your candidate or changes anyone's heart about the situation, but your certainly entitled to deal with it like that.


by Tenafly Viper on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:15:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

their only hope at this point (none / 0)

well one way to deal with this issue is to be intentionally dense

That is pretty much Hillary's entire campaign strategy at this point--counting on her supporters not to question the increasingly twisted logic with which she builds her arguments for staying in the race.

I really wish that when she actually does step down, her supporters would come out of this fog they are in and admit they were wrong to keep insisting she was going to win at this point, but I doubt we'll hear that from many of them. it is starting to sound like they will be claiming Hillary is the president on Jan 20th 2009, even while the rest of us are watching Obama being sworn in on TV.


by 2501 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:13:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (1.66 / 9)

I can't find examples of such apparently careless mentionings of assassination, and that she's done this several times before, same basic phrasing, indicates it's not careless.

She's using assassination to make a few points here.  She should stay in the race, because RFK was assassinated in June.  Now, we're susposed to conclude from that the important element of 'June' and not 'assassination'?  Give me a break.  She could have said 'RFK was still running in June'.  And we all know that RFK was assassinated, no need to bring up that tragedy.

Assassination is FUD.  Be afraid that Obama might be assassinated, supers and supporters.  He might not die of natural causes.   That would be catastrophic, unthinkable.  The VP slot is too important, Hillary should get it (angling for VP here I think too).  Hillary should continue to campaign, because assassination might happen.  

It's sickening, that she would even use this tragedy to try and make a political point.  She's getting backlash from it now because of her poor framing, her high negatives, Obama's prominence, Huckabees comments, and the growing acrimony of this race.


"I'm all for the delegate battle, and now that Obama's campaign is too, I'm all giddy. It's going to be the supers as kingmaker." J.Armstrong 01/19/08
by obscurant on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:50:33 PM EST

Re:Careless indeed (2.00 / 1)

Interesting that you should be so concerned about "carelessness", considering that earlier today you posted the real name, address, telephone number and email addy of a Clinton supporter on this site.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:57:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re:Careless indeed (1.00 / 1)

Clinton supporter? More like a troll.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:03:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (1.83 / 6)

I'm afraid it's a little late for dignity, now.

I don't support Hillary, never did, and don't even much like her.

But she and I are both women, and hers was an historic first, and I admired her resilience.

But now, she's just gone over the edge.  Whatever her meaning was meant to be, there are some things you just don't say, or do.  And that was one of them, talk about assassination.

Even worse, like the Bosnia thing, she doesn't even apologize for making an error, and this was a most grievous one.  Regret if you offended is not an apology.

She needs to get out.  Fast.


by xyz on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:52:33 PM EST

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (1.40 / 5)

there are some things you just don't say, or do.  

- Like saying small town folks cling to guns , gods and are racist because of their economic situation.

OR

Sitting in the pew for 20 years while your Pastor is busy Daming America and white folks.

Pick your choice.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:00:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (2.00 / 3)

With all due respect lori he apologized to the people (bitter) he offended citing it was a poor choice of words, he rejected and denounced Reverend Wright (which were not his words).

I do not believe there was any malice on her part regarding RFK, as I believe there was no malice involved during bittergate. It was a poor example to use, and I wish she would have apologized to more than the Kennedy's but to people (like my grandmother who saw it today was very upset and is a big-time Kennedy person) who also felt it was wrong and hurtful.


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:30:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

With all due respect.... (none / 0)

Bobby Kennedy's own son didn't seem to think there was a problem.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:00:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: With all due respect.... (none / 0)

That's fine..I'm trying to make peace and all you want to do is jump in with both feet...I'm not looking for a fight here....


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:19:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It was an insult to Obama. (2.00 / 1)

She managed to insult the Kennedys at the same time - good for RFK Jr. for not taking offense.

But the part everyone is so upset about is bringing up assasination (any assasination) when trying to explane why she is staying in the race. Everyone knows about the heightend security measures that the Obama campaing has to take because of the threats he has been getting. It is a very real concern. This campaing has brought the crazies out of the woodwork. As Mark Shields put it, this has been the untold story of this elections season. Every time BO walks into a huge crowd people are holding their breath. To bring up assasination in this context is just tastless.


by Sopianae on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:35:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was an insult to Obama. (none / 0)

I meant "explain" and "tasteless"


by Sopianae on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:39:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (2.00 / 1)

if someone could only address the other 500

bullshit statements and lies she has made   this

champion of the poor was a corporate lawyer and

sat on the board of Wallmart  her entire campaign

has been a fraud


by marketingman on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:48:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (2.00 / 1)

Well, I guess you think assassination is a valid political reason for her staying in.


by xyz on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:04:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How 'bout this... (2.00 / 6)

I'm a Hillary supporter. Her comments were wrong. She should not have referred to the Kennedy assisination when trying to make her point.

She has now apologized.

Can we move on?


by nikkid on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:55:06 PM EST

Re: How 'bout this... (none / 0)

Let's hope so.


by rfahey22 on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:58:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How 'bout this... (2.00 / 8)

Clinton has lost the nomination.  Can we move on?  

If the Clinton dead enders need months to process the fact that she lost the election then you sure as shit can give the rest of us a few hours to process such a base remark by someone who almost got to be President.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Fri May 23, 2008 at 08:58:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, how 'bout this... (1.50 / 2)

"Obama has lost the nomination.  Can we move on?  

If the Obama dead enders need months to process the fact that he lost the election then you sure as shit can give the rest of us a few hours to process such a base remark by someone who almost got to be President."


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:03:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

how's the weather in Bizarro-world? (2.00 / 1)

Kubler-Ross would be astonished that the denial stage could last so very long, in the face of all the evidence.


by N in Seattle on Fri May 23, 2008 at 11:56:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, how 'bout this... (none / 0)

Crackheads on the corner of my street make more sense than you. Repeating something over and over does not make it true. It makes you seem crazy.


by Rationalisto on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:36:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How 'bout this... (2.00 / 3)

I dunno. People went on for days over whether Obama was giving the finger or scratching his face. So I don't imagine this will go away a few hours after it happened. I'd say at least a few days.


by Becky G on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:04:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How 'bout this... (2.00 / 1)

How many days does she have?  I mean, her campaign is drawing to a close, and the last thing she needed was a huge gaffe.  That's NOT the note she wants to end on, leaving a bad taste in so many people's mouths.

I don't believe she meant anything by it.  Maybe for someone like her, political assassination is just a fact of life.  I think it's hugely careless for her to say that, given what violence has meant to so many people... and given the context of violence against change agents, particularly Black change agents.

Personally, I think if she chose this moment to suspend her campaign so that she can campaign for Obama, that gesture would be pretty meaningful and would erase the gaffe.  It would also be meaningful from coming on her own initiative, rather than being dragged from the nomination race kicking and screaming because she can't let go.

If I were the speechwriter, it would be along the lines of:

"I'm deeply sorry that my comment mentioned political assassination in anything approaching a casual way.  Violence has been a horrific part of our national history.  Too often our greatest leaders have paid the ultimate price for their service to our country.  We become especially aware of this history, and anxious about it, when we recognize an emerging leader for our great nation.

"There can be no question of my deep respect for Barack Obama as a great leader.  There can be no question of my loyalty to him and to all my fellow members of the Democratic party.  There can be no question of my horror at the possibility of any political violence ever again.  I understand that my clumsy comment may have raised a question about this for some people, and for that I profoundly apologize.  As a show of my profound commitment, I hereby suspend my presidential campaign so that I may campaign for the next President of the United States of America, Barack Obama."

NB - I'm considering it over because Barack has so many delegates, and the party is obviously unifying behind him (Cardoza 40, Edwards, Pelosi club, and so on and so on).  No offense meant to our Clinton diehards who may not consider it over.


McCain: because not everyone's ready to say goodbye to W yet!
by Matt Smith on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:53:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you understand why... (2.00 / 2)

...the comment was wrong?

She apologized to the Kennedys, but that is not the most offensive componant to the comment.

Do you understand that?


by DawnG on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:00:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How 'bout this... (2.00 / 4)

Well, except she hasn't apologized, unless you think saying I regret if anyone was offended counts.

I don't think she's waiting for an assassination, but that really was tasteless in the extreme.

She should learn to say, I am sorry.


by xyz on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:09:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How 'bout this... (2.00 / 1)

And it might be nice if she somehow inserted Obama into that apology.


by Rationalisto on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:37:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How 'bout this... (2.00 / 1)

I hear you. Works both ways though. As we speak 2 diaries blaming Obama and his supporters of swiftboating Hillary are on the Rec.List. This is not about Obama. Hillary made a mistake. It happens. Nobody is perfect.

I'm thinking Obama will be blamed for the continued coverage and heat Hillary will take from these comments by the MSM.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:10:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wanted her to leave the race with dignity... (2.00 / 3)

It's very difficult to believe you ever wanted to see her leave with dignity considering the very mean diary you posted yesterday.


by LakersFan on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:13:04 PM EST

It's disappointing that... (2.00 / 3)

...you chose to engage in personal attacks rather than respond to what I wrote.


I'm only a click away
by juliewolf on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:50:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's disappointing that... (2.00 / 1)

Oh please. Save the "politics of personal destruction" crap for the Republicans. Your history speaks for itself, and the previous commenter merely noted that. The fact is that you did write a negative diary just yesterday, and that clearly belies your current position that you wanted Clinton to leave the race with dignity - you didn't.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Fri May 23, 2008 at 10:03:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How about this... (2.00 / 1)

I didn't care how she left the race as long as it didn't hurt the party. I'm amazed that Obama supporters frequently get called cultists while Hillary supporters have become bitter, and cling to this notion that She is the Chosen One, here to save us heathens from the Sure Destruction that comes from nominating Obama.

She's done, she's sullied her husband's legacy, such that it was, as she said about working class whites in the South when they weren't voting for her, "Screw 'em."


by Geiiga on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:38:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's disappointing that... (2.00 / 1)

Oh please. Save the "politics of personal destruction" crap for the Republicans. Your history speaks for itself, and the previous commenter merely noted that. The fact is that you did write a negative diary just yesterday, and that clearly belies your current position that you wanted Clinton to leave the race with dignity - you didn't.

I wrote a factual diary yesterday in response to a diary which was completely absurd.

Look, I fully expect to get attacked here when I post my points of view, but I'd appreciate it if people would attack me for the things I've done rather than the things they imagine I've done.

Perhaps that's too much to ask.

In the meantime, while you may think what you want about me, I don't post personal attacks here, and I don't engage in meaningless hyperbole.  The fact that some of you feel a need to respond with nasty personal comments and imagined attacks on my motives and morals suggests to me that I'm striking a nerve.

The fact of the matter is that I fully expected her to stay in the race until after all the voting was over in June and that after that point the Superdelegates would come together to solidify Obama's lead (with or without any MI/FL scenario that might apply) and I'd hoped that this would all get resolved cleanly and in a fashion that, on the surface, would appear amicable.

I know a lot of Obama supporters want her broken.  I don't.  I just wanted her to let it go.

But sure: impugn my motives and attack me instead.  I get why some of you need to do that, so fine.  Use me as a verbal punching bag if you need to.  It's not like I can't take it.


I'm only a click away
by juliewolf on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:30:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's disappointing that... (none / 0)

If you believe that criticizing a diary you wrote is the same as using you as a personal punching bag, then I don't know what to tell you. I didn't say anything personal about you - I don't know you. I simply stated (and continue to believe) that the tone of your diary doesn't match your rhetoric about wanting Hillary Clinton to have a graceful withdrawal. That's it. If you think people disagreeing with you is a personal attack, you probably should avoid posting.

Hillary said something dumb. Obama has done the same in the past, and they both will make mistakes in the future.  So what. They're both fine representatives of our party, and I'm delighted we have them around.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:27:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's disappointing that... (2.00 / 1)

Pointing out the fact that you wrote another diary attacking Clinton yesterday is not a personal attack, it's a statement of fact.


by LakersFan on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:39:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Senator Clinton, If You Squint (2.00 / 3)

You can see dignity in the rear-view mirror.

Better not look back, though.  Keep the pedal to the metal in your race to the bottom.

I can't believe I was really beginning to have some respect and sympathy for her...


by Bargeron on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:21:08 PM EST

To my fellow Clintonistas: (2.00 / 6)

This is the nature of politics.  You make a gaffe and everybody piles on.  That's the way it is.

Let's allow the Hillary haters to have their moment of self-righteous indignation and fill up the rec list with "Oh my God, I'm so angry, I can't be believe she sunk so low.  She needs to drop out now or McCain will win the presidency and destroy the world and it will be all Hillary's fault" diaries.  

If they want to enjoy the moment, let them.  Hillary handed them an opportunity to get up on their high horses and bash her in the head.  You can't use logic with people when they are having this much fun.


Linfar's co-blogger opposing